It can be rather difficult to unpack what Geber is talking about, without an understanding of other Alchemical authors who aren’t quite so cryptic. Geber is of course where we get the word Jibberish. There is a large gulf between the “primitive chemistry” viewpoint, and the Jungian one, the heart of the mystery lies somewhere in the middle.
This is a very fair point, Geber can be a little wordy and a little heady. But the first step in us understanding Gerber, is for us to have heard of Geber. That's currently the focus at least for me at the moment! Great point though!
Curious which texts of Geber you like, I've only read a handful of them. Summa Perfectionis is the best known, quite the labyrinth, but many obscure ideas within it are elucidated quite a bit in later alchemical literature. As far as old texts, I tend to recommend the Rosarium Philosophorum, as a very concise collection of quotes from older texts, which describes the Stone directly. Puts these older texts like Geber and Zosimos in proper context.
Indeed, ultimately, we wanted to drag into the light the propensity for occultists and esotericists working in the "WEST", particularly everything west of Italy, that there are parallel, and living traditions that did not lose continuity and that in large part preserved a great deal of this from Byzantine to the Islamicate world, and only later did our Western scholars pull their heads out of their ... you get the picture lol
Quite the language barrier, I've found. I used to belong to a European Alchemical group which had a few member from the middle east. There are different paths in the tradition, many of the modern Arabic alchemists I'm aware of follow what we in the west call the "acetate path", that of Ripley, Lull & Trevisan.
"What constitutes legitimate ownership when the marginalized reclaim wisdom from systems that have systematically marginalized them?"
Bookstores and libraries let you read books even if you don't buy them, occult groups have free classes and collections, and the internet has so much accessible....so perhaps quite a fair amount? Maybe I'm a "non-shared environment" type, but blaming "the system" seems too simplistic, ignoring the myriad of individual actors and unique factors (including ordinary human imperfections) that led to misfortune (or one's own contributions) that have nothing to do with other people or broader social mechanisms. The shops and their employees being stolen from hence end up getting scapegoated into a "system" with real (or imagined) original sins they rarely if ever perpetuate. I am skeptical of passing off such frustration or resentment as righteous rebellion. Can one even "reclaim" wisdom that is already in the public domain and freely spoken of or written about?
Concurrently, I'd also offer that the reason Gaber et al. are not as well known as Agrippa and Dee is because much of the Abbasid Caliphate and later Ottoman Empire remained geographically and linguistically inaccessible to the vast majority of people in the West for so long. Whatever meeting of the two worlds took place usually did so in the context of warfare and territory changing hands, long before the age of exploration and colonies, not exactly conducive to delving through the Baghdad library. Its no coincidence that fascination with the near east finally occurred at a time when the Ottoman Empire was no longer a viable threat Europe.
Simplicity in ritual is both useful and historical. I can only speak to Egypt here, but popular prayers at temples or homes were pretty short, something that could have been said in under a minute, often in the form of a "collect". A simple offering of libation or incense, or even just "praise" sufficed. Magic seems to have usually reciting a myth of Isis healing Horus or a command, accompanied by a folk remedy. These would have indeed been the most common activity for the populace, and it is a great way to introduce people to ancient practice without being intimidated by the complex praise and offering episodes of the temples.
"Can one even "reclaim" wisdom that is already in the public domain and freely spoken of or written about?" and what of the wisdom that isn't? In Liber Laverna I speak not only of theft of the physical objects, but of the retrieval of lost information. Traditions of your ancestors, practices that were deemed not for civilized people and therfore not discussed, lost lineages etc etc. Not all knowledge that's been stolen sits in a book or on the internet.
"nd linguistically inaccessible to the vast majority of people in the West for so long. Whatever meeting of the two worlds took place usually did so in the context of warfare and territory changing hands, long before the age of exploration and colonies, not exactly conducive to delving through the Baghdad library. Its no coincidence that fascination with the near east finally occurred at a time when the Ottoman Empire was no longer a viable threat Europe."
I agree this was definitely the case for quite some time, but it is the information and technology age, and anyone can reach out and see and learn these things, so now we don't have the excuse, and therefore almost have an obligation to bring this stuff back to the spotlight in my opinion.
I love the idea of the quick under a minute collects!
Anthropologists have been documenting an amazing amount of practices from cultures few know about, but it's not unreasonable to assume they got to everything, or even wanted to. If there is lost knowledge that is not in a book, there's nothing to thieve but rather rediscover. Hence the bookworm must become a private eye or sorts, an explorer, a chronicler, bringing the light back to a world that never knew it went out.
The "grimoire revival" enabled by modern information exchange has thankfully included some deliciously non-Western tomes such as the Picatrix. I think we just need some patience for the formerly unknown to permeate into the known. After all, we are still even discovering ancient Egyptian temples and tombs.
I agree and this is why I also compare a devotee to Laverna as a Seeker of Hidden Knowledge, it's not enough to just take, but one must find what they need to take as well!
It can be rather difficult to unpack what Geber is talking about, without an understanding of other Alchemical authors who aren’t quite so cryptic. Geber is of course where we get the word Jibberish. There is a large gulf between the “primitive chemistry” viewpoint, and the Jungian one, the heart of the mystery lies somewhere in the middle.
This is a very fair point, Geber can be a little wordy and a little heady. But the first step in us understanding Gerber, is for us to have heard of Geber. That's currently the focus at least for me at the moment! Great point though!
Curious which texts of Geber you like, I've only read a handful of them. Summa Perfectionis is the best known, quite the labyrinth, but many obscure ideas within it are elucidated quite a bit in later alchemical literature. As far as old texts, I tend to recommend the Rosarium Philosophorum, as a very concise collection of quotes from older texts, which describes the Stone directly. Puts these older texts like Geber and Zosimos in proper context.
I hate to be the guy to be like "my favorite is the most popular" but there IS a reason why it's called the Height of PErfection
Indeed, ultimately, we wanted to drag into the light the propensity for occultists and esotericists working in the "WEST", particularly everything west of Italy, that there are parallel, and living traditions that did not lose continuity and that in large part preserved a great deal of this from Byzantine to the Islamicate world, and only later did our Western scholars pull their heads out of their ... you get the picture lol
Quite the language barrier, I've found. I used to belong to a European Alchemical group which had a few member from the middle east. There are different paths in the tradition, many of the modern Arabic alchemists I'm aware of follow what we in the west call the "acetate path", that of Ripley, Lull & Trevisan.
"What constitutes legitimate ownership when the marginalized reclaim wisdom from systems that have systematically marginalized them?"
Bookstores and libraries let you read books even if you don't buy them, occult groups have free classes and collections, and the internet has so much accessible....so perhaps quite a fair amount? Maybe I'm a "non-shared environment" type, but blaming "the system" seems too simplistic, ignoring the myriad of individual actors and unique factors (including ordinary human imperfections) that led to misfortune (or one's own contributions) that have nothing to do with other people or broader social mechanisms. The shops and their employees being stolen from hence end up getting scapegoated into a "system" with real (or imagined) original sins they rarely if ever perpetuate. I am skeptical of passing off such frustration or resentment as righteous rebellion. Can one even "reclaim" wisdom that is already in the public domain and freely spoken of or written about?
Concurrently, I'd also offer that the reason Gaber et al. are not as well known as Agrippa and Dee is because much of the Abbasid Caliphate and later Ottoman Empire remained geographically and linguistically inaccessible to the vast majority of people in the West for so long. Whatever meeting of the two worlds took place usually did so in the context of warfare and territory changing hands, long before the age of exploration and colonies, not exactly conducive to delving through the Baghdad library. Its no coincidence that fascination with the near east finally occurred at a time when the Ottoman Empire was no longer a viable threat Europe.
Simplicity in ritual is both useful and historical. I can only speak to Egypt here, but popular prayers at temples or homes were pretty short, something that could have been said in under a minute, often in the form of a "collect". A simple offering of libation or incense, or even just "praise" sufficed. Magic seems to have usually reciting a myth of Isis healing Horus or a command, accompanied by a folk remedy. These would have indeed been the most common activity for the populace, and it is a great way to introduce people to ancient practice without being intimidated by the complex praise and offering episodes of the temples.
"Can one even "reclaim" wisdom that is already in the public domain and freely spoken of or written about?" and what of the wisdom that isn't? In Liber Laverna I speak not only of theft of the physical objects, but of the retrieval of lost information. Traditions of your ancestors, practices that were deemed not for civilized people and therfore not discussed, lost lineages etc etc. Not all knowledge that's been stolen sits in a book or on the internet.
"nd linguistically inaccessible to the vast majority of people in the West for so long. Whatever meeting of the two worlds took place usually did so in the context of warfare and territory changing hands, long before the age of exploration and colonies, not exactly conducive to delving through the Baghdad library. Its no coincidence that fascination with the near east finally occurred at a time when the Ottoman Empire was no longer a viable threat Europe."
I agree this was definitely the case for quite some time, but it is the information and technology age, and anyone can reach out and see and learn these things, so now we don't have the excuse, and therefore almost have an obligation to bring this stuff back to the spotlight in my opinion.
I love the idea of the quick under a minute collects!
Anthropologists have been documenting an amazing amount of practices from cultures few know about, but it's not unreasonable to assume they got to everything, or even wanted to. If there is lost knowledge that is not in a book, there's nothing to thieve but rather rediscover. Hence the bookworm must become a private eye or sorts, an explorer, a chronicler, bringing the light back to a world that never knew it went out.
The "grimoire revival" enabled by modern information exchange has thankfully included some deliciously non-Western tomes such as the Picatrix. I think we just need some patience for the formerly unknown to permeate into the known. After all, we are still even discovering ancient Egyptian temples and tombs.
I cover a bit of Sadek's work on popular prayers and their format here: https://horusontheprairie.substack.com/p/how-to-pray
I agree and this is why I also compare a devotee to Laverna as a Seeker of Hidden Knowledge, it's not enough to just take, but one must find what they need to take as well!